Community Possibilities

Empathy Through Storytelling: Meet Catherine Cote

• Ann Price • Season 1 • Episode 47

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Join us on this enlightening convo with Catherine Cote, founder of Project Empathy. A college study abroad experience to Melbourne, Australia, changed her life. Catherine's story is one of personal growth and social awakening. 

Catherine's passion project, Project Empathy, is her remarkable initiative that aims to open up dialogue and understanding through the power of storytelling and unique empathy exercises.  The Black Lives Matter movement and the 2020 election greatly influenced the project, underlining the crucial role of storytelling in fostering empathy and understanding. Catherine's shares who the Project creates a safe space for dialogue and the transformative impact of shared story. Catherine shares her insights on the profound power of empathy and connection in bridging societal divides. 

We explore the inner workings of Project Empathy -  the rehearsal process, final performance, and the pivotal role of the audience in the narrative. If you seek a deeper understanding of humanity and are intrigued by the potential of storytelling to change hearts and minds, this conversation with Catherine Cody is one you won't want to miss.!

Catherine's Bio:

Catherine Cote, founder of Project Empathy, is a Boston-based creative, marketer, and entrepreneur with a passion for human connection. Catherine graduated from College of the Holy Cross in 2018 with a psychology major, education and Mandarin Chinese minors, a certificate from the Ciocca Center for Business, Ethics, & Society, and a habit for theatre. Her interests and studies all boil down to a passion for understanding people and the way we communicate.

 In February 2017, while studying abroad in Melbourne, Australia, Catherine created Project Empathy as an experimental answer to the social division and lack of deep conversation she was experiencing. After directing the first cast of six people at the University of Melbourne, she brought the Project back home to the US for its American premier at Holy Cross. To expand the Project’s reach and impact, Catherine developed the Performance Package and founded Project Empathy, LLC in October 2020.

In addition to running Project Empathy, Catherine works in higher education marketing. When she’s not at her desk, you’ll likely find her hiking with her family and dog, picnicking with friends or a good book, or singing in her Subaru.

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Music by Zach Price: Zachpricet@gmail.com

Ann Price:

Hi everybody, welcome back to Community Possibilities. Catherine Cody, the founder of Product Empathy, joins me today. Catherine and I have been trying to connect for a couple of months now, so excited to have her on the show. Not many people get the idea. What would it look like if I did fill in the blank? Sometimes we have those thoughts and we just blow right past them and we never do that thing that lights us up. Catherine has done that. She's going to tell you all about Project Empathy, what it is, how she came up with the idea, when she was a student doing a study abroad in Australia. Wow, it's just so fabulous. I know you're really going to enjoy this.

Ann Price:

If you, like me, are interested in how we can have more connection with our fellow human beings, how we can learn to talk to and listen to people with whom we don't agree, then this conversation with Catherine Cody of Project Empathy is what you need to hear today. I hope, as always, you will like and share this podcast with somebody who needs to hear it. And now let's go to the show. Hi everybody, welcome back to Community Possibilities. I am so excited to have Catherine Cody on the podcast today. Catherine, you and I have been trying to get together for a skinny minute? Yes, we have. So Catherine has been a world traveler. She's got a busy life, so thank you for coming on the show, catherine.

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, oh my gosh. Thank you so much for having me, and I'm really glad that we could finally coordinate.

Ann Price:

Yeah well, I am so excited to talk to you about Project Empathy and where you came up with that idea. Before we get started, I wonder if you might introduce yourself to my audience. I think it's always really fascinating how people came to be who they are. So tell us how you came to be who you are.

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, sure, so my name is Catherine Cody. I grew up in Hopkinson, massachusetts, and I live in Boston now. And yeah, I mean I have two younger brothers. Love growing up in Hopkinson and I ended up going to Holy Cross in Worcester for my undergrad and while I was there, I studied psychology education, mandarin, chinese, and then I also have this business certificate, which is like business, ethics and society. And yeah, I mean I really always just sort of took an interest to like the way people interact and connect. So that's sort of like why I studied what I studied. And, yeah, I ended up starting Project Empathy when I was a junior there in 2017 and started it as a business in 2020. And now I'm here living, working in Boston in marketing and then running Project Empathy on the side.

Ann Price:

Well, I love Boston. Boston is a fabulous city, oh my gosh, and being where I live in Georgia is so jealous of your mass transit system.

Ann Price:

Oh yeah, we were actually there for July 4th now that I think about it and it was the July after the bombing in Boston and we were there and the pops played and they did a beautiful tribute to the victims of the bombing. It was really, really it was very special. Actually, it was very special, and it's very special how they can get people in and out of a very confined area effortlessly. But you and I also have a few other things in common, including Hello, undergraduate Psych major. Oh, that's perfect. Yeah, and yeah, we have a few other things in common. Let's talk about Project Empathy and it will become clear. So tell us about Project Empathy where you came up with that idea. Yeah, let's just start there. I'll let you tell the story?

Catherine Cote:

Definitely, yeah, thank you. So, like I said, I was a junior at Holy Cross and I studied abroad in Melbourne, australia, for one semester. That was February through June 2017. And, per context, that was right after President Trump was inaugurated. So, just setting the political landscape, and I mean, as you can imagine, being an American in a different country at that time, I was getting a lot of questions and people asking me to like speak on behalf of America and I'm sure you did that very well.

Catherine Cote:

Oh, thank you, I tried. It was like I can tell you my opinions.

Catherine Cote:

but yeah, you know, but so I was sort of like witnessing that division that was happening like from afar, which was a really interesting perspective, and at the same time I was in a brand new country where I knew nobody. I think, well, I knew one person from Holy Cross, but that was it. So the whole time they're putting us through orientation programs and I'm meeting people in classes and these group tours and things. I was meeting literally hundreds of people per week but we were really just talking about surface level things and actually a lot of them were sort of these weird little cultural differences that are fun to recognize. But the connection sort of stopped there. Like we were like, oh, you call this a cuppa instead of saying a cup of coffee, like that's so funny, and we sort of would just stop the conversation and basically I started feeling like I wanted deeper connection at the same time that I was experiencing this division that was happening in the US.

Catherine Cote:

And I've always been really into theater it's been my hobby of choice for pretty much my entire life and I knew that the University of Melbourne, where I was studying, had this student run theater office. So the idea just sort of came to me one time when I was sitting in my apartment, I was watching the sunset and I was thinking what if I could have a theatrical type production where people with different lives and different viewpoints told each other's stories? And I knew that it was sort of just an experimental shot in the dark, but, like I was in a brand new country, nobody knew me Like why not try it? So I reached out to the student run theater office. They were like, yeah, just send an email to our list, just see if people respond. If not, that's fine. And if they do respond, yeah, just take it away. And I got 17 responses.

Catherine Cote:

The call that I put out was I'm looking for people with a story to tell. And 17 people responded. I ended up meeting up with 12 of them and we sat down over a cuppa and they told me their story. And some of them were super, super specific somewhere their entire lives that they summarized into that amount of time. But they were very deep and very personal things about like overcoming trauma, like leaving home for the first time, coming into their own as adults, longing for genuine love.

Catherine Cote:

It was basically when I asked people to tell these types of stories. The things that we were talking about were way deeper than surface level. So, on one hand, this is exactly what I was looking for and, on the other hand, I started realizing this could be a really cool performance piece. So over the next six weeks, I ended up leading this cast of six people, who I chose based on the diversity of their stories in empathy exercises. So I paired them up purposefully with diverse intentions, so like if you were paired up with me, our stories would be totally different.

Catherine Cote:

And yeah, basically I just led them through these empathy exercises, we worked on them, refining their stories and understanding each other. And then at the end of the six weeks, we went to this potluck open mic night and we're like, yeah, we have like a half hour, do you mind if we do this performance? And they're like, yeah, sure, and it ended up being incredibly moving. And they also had put these little pieces of paper and markers around the room, like to react to the performances if you wanted to. And that's also when I got my first round of audience feedback. So, yeah, I guess that's the origin story and the story of the first production.

Ann Price:

Oh my gosh, I have like so many follow-up thoughts running through my head. One I told you we had more in common. I may have told you this the first time we met, that I was president of the Espions in high school.

Catherine Cote:

And I was like no.

Ann Price:

Okay, there you go. Yeah, fun fact. And let me just say I was, and I'm sure I still am, a terrible actress. I was this will surprise nobody that knows me that I was really good at organizing and bossing people around, telling them what to do so I made a great yes, exactly, I made a great student director, terrible actress.

Ann Price:

I'll give you a wild guess which role I played in Little Women. Oh, was it that? No, no, not at all. Was it Joe? No, nope. Oh, my gosh, aunt Marmy. Oh, isn't that her name? The grumpy aunt, yeah, yeah, okay, so we have that in common. The other thing we have in common, I think, is that whole desire to have deeper conversations is really why I started the podcast, and kind of the same, well similar, environment. I started the podcast, I think, in 2020.

Ann Price:

Yeah, so we're still living in a time of division, and I guess the other thought that comes to mind that I wanna mention is I love how you asked yourself that question what would it look like if I created this space where people could tell each other's stories? I love that so much. I have a similar project I'm working on where I asked myself what would it look like if nonprofit senior leaders came together in a beautiful setting where they had time to relax and really have that creative space to learn and benefit from each other? Anyway, more to come on that, but I love that question. I think more people need to say what would it look like if I? Because I think those questions come from a very special place. Anyway, let's talk more about project empathy. So what is an empathy exercise? What does that look like?

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, so basically this rehearsal process it's six to eight weeks long, depending on the timeline of everybody involved, and each rehearsal sort of opens with this empathy exercise and I provide a big bank event that the directors can choose from. But basically it's where you're getting together with your partner before you dig into your stories and you are reacting to a prompt. One of them that I like to share a lot is the morning routine exercise. So if you and I were partners, I would just tell you basically my morning routine from start to finish, in as much detail as we have time for you would do the same for me, and then we would switch morning routines and I would tell the rest of our cast.

Catherine Cote:

You know I'm waking up. My name is Anne. This is the first thing I do, this is the second thing I do. So it sort of just gives you this practice of putting yourself in the other person's mindset and just like giving you a sort of a practice run of I'm embodying who this person is, I'm taking the time to listen to the details of their life. But it's a pretty low stakes topic, whereas the stories are typically pretty high stakes topics.

Ann Price:

Yeah, and that makes sense of kind of getting ready, getting people ready to have those more deeper conversations. I imagine is this a Catherine came up with this thing, or is this a thing you do in theater class? I've never heard of empathy exercises.

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, most of them I came up with, but others I mean there's one that I did learn in a theater class. That's like describe your childhood bedroom in detail. We did that once in a college and actually, as we're now eight productions in, a lot of the directors have come up with things on their own and said, hey, could I do this as an empathy exercise? And I'm like, yes, absolutely. So. It's sort of a conglomeration from a different, a bunch of different sources.

Ann Price:

Oh my gosh, you're so creative and I wanna step back just a second because I'm flashing back to you going to this open mic night. Oh my gosh, Gory, you got some. You got some hood spa. What would you have done if they said, no way, right, Cause you've got all these people and they're ready to do their thing, and so good for you.

Ann Price:

I appreciate that. Thank you. So from that, so you got the audience feedback Did you have any plan past the first night? How did this thing grow, Cause you mentioned, well, we're eight productions in. How did you get from a let's do this thing to eight productions later? What does that look like?

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, I mean. So the first piece of audience feedback it was. It was written, you know, it was just like on a piece of construction paper with a marker. It said the first story made me realize I should have a relationship with my dad. I'll call him tomorrow.

Ann Price:

Oh, my goodness so.

Catherine Cote:

I, to be honest, like when I went into it, I was not thinking about really what the audience impact would be. I was more thinking about the the you know, peer to peer impact of getting to empathize with another person, the impact on the cast. But then, reading that, I was like wow, this actually has a lot of sort of ripple effect potential. So I don't think I really had a plan for it up until that point. I was thinking more of it as an experiment, but then seeing like, oh yeah, okay, this has the opportunity to be able to really impact a lot of people if you think about the audiences and then the communities that those audiences are all part of. So I was. I was definitely in a student run theater at Holy Cross too. So when I came back from Melbourne, I asked it's called alternate college theater. It's like do you think that there's room for me to do this my senior year? And they were like yes, absolutely, we'll. We'll fit you into the schedule. So I actually did get to do it with Holy Cross students in 2018. And that was more. It was my second time doing it. I, you know, I felt more confident in the outcomes and the process, but it was still very much like okay, it feels a little bit experimental, like I came up with this and it went well the first time. Let's see how it goes here back in the United States.

Catherine Cote:

So fast forward a little bit to 2020. Once again, as you know, extreme division. It was sort of like the dual pronged environment of being physically apart from other people and then also having the Black Lives Matter movement and the 2020 election. You know that whole storm of things that happened at the same time. That made it a really lonely, fraught kind of time, and I was thinking like I really think that product empathy could bring some good into this scenario. So I had been sort of working on a guide over the past several years leading up to that. That was encompassing everything that I learned from putting on the first two and it's what is called our performance package today. So it's a step-by-step guide and then also all the resources that you would need to be able to put this on in your community. So that was sort of the when I had that built out. I was like okay, I can found this as a business, I can give this kit to people and then, you know, really see the impact and scale grow beyond just me.

Ann Price:

Yeah, but when you first thought of it it was not. You weren't really thinking about that first performance, right? So when did that kind of solidify in your mind?

Catherine Cote:

Was it after that, when you came back to Holy Cross and you did it then, or I think that even when I was doing it at Holy Cross, I wasn't thinking about it as a business that would keep growing. I think I almost thought of it as like, maybe this is just something that Holy Cross does every year, which they have actually done it three times now, which is really nice. But yeah, I do think that it was in 2020. That was like, if I make this a kit, then it could grow beyond just me.

Ann Price:

Right and have really positive effects. Yeah, that is so awesome. Can you kind of describe maybe a little more about what that process looks like, now that you've done it a few times, so everybody can kind of have a picture of what it would be like to be a participant or be an audience member? Anything you can kind of share that would help people kind of understand the project. And then I'm really curious about where it has been performed. Is it just like in colleges? Is it in communities? Anything you can share that would really kind of help people get their mind around what it's like.

Catherine Cote:

Yes, definitely. So very, very first step someone expresses interest. They send me an email or submit a form on the website Because I think I might want to bring this to my community. We'll have a call, just like you and I are having now, and we'll talk about what community are you thinking of bringing this to. Is it a college? Is it a town? Is it a religious community?

Catherine Cote:

The opportunities for that are endless and talk about why. Sometimes it's just this general sense of wanting to increase empathy, but sometimes it's specific problems. If someone has reached out and said, like our town is having this real sort of schism happening over an issue that the school committee brought up, and I think this would help that. Or like, if there's a specific issue that they're working through in their community, like some colleges with hate crimes happening on campus, so it might be a specific problem or it might be just more general. And so once we sort of nail down like, yes, this is a good fit for you and your specific needs, then I'll send over the package.

Catherine Cote:

And so once you have the package, you get to sort of think of your vision. Is it going to be? You know, we're going to take people from this specific age group or is it we're specifically trying to reach a super wide variety of people and thinking of, like, what methods we want to use in the performance? So it sort of just depends on, like, the director's background. If they are involved in theater, maybe they want to lean more towards the art side of things If they're not just made more of like a stripped down performance, but that all of that to say that the person's experience and their personal vision all sort of factor into that.

Ann Price:

So are you coaching them along the way, as they kind of work through these questions?

Catherine Cote:

Yes, yeah, definitely. So I will have like a weekly call with these directors if they want it. Some of them are sort of pros by now, but I always love just sort of getting to coach them along the way, so yeah, so the first step is for them to put out a call for participants and, like I said, sometimes that's like I'm looking for people with a story to tell. Sometimes they think, well, maybe I'll put a theme to the story or maybe I'll specifically reach out to senior citizens or freshmen in college Like they. They sort of can cater this to whatever their needs are. But they put out this call for participants. People, people show up. We haven't had a time yet where no one showed up.

Catherine Cote:

I feel like that's really maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but that's really one of the big things I've learned from this, and that's very hopeful is that when you say who wants to come tell your story and understand someone different from you, people come. It's this like it's an opportunity to get to get to know someone on a deeper level and it is really heartening to know that people want to show up for that. So yeah, so after they get all of these interested parties, we'll interview each of them and say like what's the story that you want to share and basically pick the cast based on diversity. It is hard sometimes having to say no to people because you know you want to be able to accept everyone. But it really should be kept small just to keep that close knit feel. So I find it's normally like six to eight people per cast usually. Yeah.

Ann Price:

Yeah, is the goal. Is the goal, catherine, to have those diads be very different from each other?

Catherine Cote:

That's so you're really kind of leaning into the empathy that is the goal, yes, or at least like they're very different on like one particular thing. So, yeah, actually even I've seen it done before and worked really well where they're actually very similar in certain ways, but then they have like one key difference. So, for instance, there was a pair once where the stories were both sort of about motherly love and the feeling of like protecting your children, but one was from the perspective of an 18 year old, like talking about her own mom, and then the other was from the perspective of a sex worker in her 30s protecting her child. And so it's like, okay, the themes are pretty similar, but they're also very, very different, mm-hmm. And then we do have like more I would say maybe more flashy pairs.

Catherine Cote:

In Greenacre, in the Seacoast area of Maine and New Hampshire, we had a local Black Lives Matter co-founder was paired up with their local police chief, and I mean that's especially happening in 2021, like it was. I mean that was really surprising to a lot of people. Even the fact that people just showed up and wanted to understand the other person, I think was a surprise. But then going through the process and then at the end telling each other's stories was it was really moving to watch.

Ann Price:

Yeah, you were talking about how you were. It sounds like you were surprised that when people do put out the call who wants to tell their story? A people answer that call but B just kind of underscore that idea that and people want to understand other people who are not like themselves. That is kind of surprising and refreshing and all those things Cause I don't think a lot of us feel that way Now. We assume that we're all stuck in our corners, right, and we want to be in our corners. Thank you very much.

Catherine Cote:

Yes, yeah, definitely yeah. I think one thing this is deering off a little bit, but we'll circle back is that have you ever seen the TED talk by Dylan Maron? It's called empathy is not endorsement.

Ann Price:

No, I don't think so I'm going to have to look it up and I'll put it in the show notes.

Catherine Cote:

It's a couple of years old, but it's really good and I mean even just the title of the talk, that's sort of the whole message. Empathy is not endorsement, and I've really had to remind people of that. I also had to learn that myself, that I feel like people sometimes are very hesitant to acknowledge the humanity in someone whose views are different from theirs because it's like, oh, they might think I agree with them or something you know. I mean even just like using like the two political extremes of an example, even just saying, like you know, I can empathize that people on the other side of the spectrum are human beings with life experiences that brought them to their opinions and they're just voting in the best interest for themselves and their family and that's what they believe to be right. Like even just acknowledging that is, I feel, like kind of you know, kind of radical. But yeah, I think that if people remember, like you can empathize with someone and that does not mean that you agree with them or condone their actions at all. That's, I think, a key point.

Ann Price:

I'm having a flash back to the end of yoga class where the yoga teacher always, you know says namaste, the light in me recognizes and honors the light in you.

Catherine Cote:

I yes, I really like yoga too, so that's another similarity too.

Ann Price:

That's awesome. So you have this like special night. So a pair gets up and they share. Is there a pause? Is there a breath? Do you go right to the next one? I imagine some are funny. I'm a crier. I cry in McDonald's commercials. So I mean, yeah, what is that experience like for the audience? Yeah, so.

Catherine Cote:

I'll just tie back into where I left off with the process, but they rehearse for six to eight weeks. Then at the very end of that is the final performance, what that looks like. That actually gets customized based on what the director's vision is. I would say the most stripped-down version is that all of the partners I personally like to have them on a couch on the stage, just because that's what I did for the very first one they just happen to have a couch at that open mic night. So I always recommend, like, yeah, if you want to do a couch, that would be a nice, you know, a nice nod, but they're all just sitting on stage together. You can typically tell that they know each other, like they're sort of hanging out, like leaning on each other a little bit. And I do provide a script template. It basically sets up what they've done. It says like the stories we tell are not our own, they belong to our fellow cast members. We were strangers just six weeks ago. We've shared ourselves with each other and just a little sort of poetic kind of opening. And then, yeah, there's a brief pause in between.

Catherine Cote:

Some have played around with different things. For instance, the performance at Greenacre in 2021,. They had a couple really talented dancers in their cast, just sort of like coincidentally, so they did actually end up having some dance in between. But, yeah, and actually in some other performances they do like the partners will hug in between each thing. So you can see, you know just their bond.

Catherine Cote:

But it also gives the audience sort of a beat to like close that first story and then, ok, reset, we're going to hear a new story now. And then, yeah, at the end there is this section where they get to sort of share adjectives that they've learned about each other. So you say, you know, for instance, like, like, we are conscientious, we are imperfect, we are silly, and they just sort of get to say all these adjectives that describe them as a group before closing it out, and there's actually a call to action for the audience to say the challenge is yours now. You can dig deeper than small talk, connect with your fellow humans. I do have this memorized and it's yeah, I mean, everyone sort of puts their own little spin on it, but there's that sort of framework that that brackets all the performances.

Ann Price:

I love, I love this so much. So, yeah, I'm an evaluator, so I got to ask you what kind of outcomes do you see? Not just the performer performer seems like not an adequate word but the people who are participating and also the audience, who are kind of also participating in a way. What kind of outcomes have you seen?

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, I. So these are all qualitative outcomes. I'll just preference it with that.

Ann Price:

They can qualitative data is is valid data.

Catherine Cote:

Thank you. So, yeah, I mean, like I mentioned before, like the very first performance, they had those scraps of paper around with markers for people to react on. So I did keep doing that for the next couple and that was really how we got a lot of audience feedback. I guess I'll start with the audience, just because usually that's, you know, people see the performance and then on their way out they, you know, jot down a couple of their first thoughts. We've had some that were very deep and profound, like I mentioned, like I should, I should call my dad. Some are more simple. We had one recently that was just like I should be more attentive to others, like OK, like I'm glad that that person took that away there.

Catherine Cote:

I think, if I had to say, like the most common response that we get is something along the lines of I just didn't realize that these people in my community had these diverse stories.

Catherine Cote:

And I see that like across communities too, whether it be at a college or in a town or religious organization. I think that getting to witness these stories, it's not only like all these people were empathizing with each other, but it is hearing their stories, which you normally wouldn't hear. So yeah, definitely those are the biggest things from an audience side. And then on the cast members side of things, I also obviously ask them for their feedback because I, you know, I want to keep making this better over time.

Catherine Cote:

I think I mean it's it really depends on who you are and like what you came to the project looking for. Some people started off just saying you know, I really came to this just hoping to tell my story and I am shocked by how much I've been able to empathize with this other person, which is a huge win in my book. Other people it's going to be a little bit meta, but they said that by hearing someone else tell their story they were able to empathize with themselves, if that makes sense Like they weren't giving themselves self-compassion until they heard someone else tell the story.

Ann Price:

So someone else tell their story? Yes, because they're telling. They're not telling their own story. They've shared that with their partner, but their partner is telling their story. So through that listening they can have more empathy with themselves, be kinder to themselves, give themselves more grace. I think is what you're saying.

Catherine Cote:

Yes, yeah, exactly yeah. And then just I mean some people, you know, like people who are at college, thinking like, okay, now I finally feel like I have a home here. There was one person who said, like I've actually never told anyone else the story before, and I feel like this is the first time someone truly understands what I went through. So I think it's a very therapeutic process for the people who are in it, both in that they're giving themselves the gift of being seen and heard, but then they're also giving their partner the gift of being seen and heard too, right, and then they both get to understand someone who's different from them. So it's multifaceted Mm. Hmm.

Ann Price:

Yeah, yeah, you got outcomes on lots and lots of levels, I would think, and so I think I asked you and I don't know if I let you answer the question. So it's been performed at schools, universities, community folks.

Catherine Cote:

Yes, so we've had all the above. Yes, so we've had to be with the University of Melbourne, three at College of the Holy Cross, and then we did have one at Greenacre, which is a religious institution in the Seacoast area of Manning, new Hampshire, one in Wilmington, north Carolina that was just like a town effort, and then one at the Hawkington Center for the Arts, which is where I grew up doing theater, so that's very special for me in Hawkington, massachusetts. And then this year we actually do have Greenacre, and the Hawkington Center for the Arts are returning, which is really really nice to see. And then we're partnering with redefining black masculinity in New Jersey, which I'm very excited for. He's just getting his cast sorted out right now and, yeah, I'm very excited to see how that sorts out.

Ann Price:

Yeah, and I love the flexibility. It's doesn't seem to be something rigid at all that people can really kind of customize to whatever they feel you know called to do. Whatever the needs of the community is that they're trying to, you know, engage with. That's so awesome, thank you so. So how can people, how do people like, if they hear the podcast and they go, oh, this sounds like this is really needed in my town or my, my community? I really like to do that. What do they do, catherine?

Catherine Cote:

I would say email me or submit the form on the website. But yeah, it's some official project. Empathy at gmailcom is my email. But yeah, basically, yeah, just just express interest and we'll talk about your community and why you would like to do this, and then we can get all set up.

Ann Price:

So what's your what? Do you have a grand vision? Or are you still in the I just have this idea and I'm going to put it out there in the universe, or is that kind of groan in your mind? What's your? What's your plans?

Catherine Cote:

It has definitely grown since the potluck open mic night, for sure. I mean, the plan is really to just get this into as many communities as possible. So I mean I do, I do outreach. I find you know organizations or groups that seem like they would be a good fit just based on their mission statements, but then also obviously would hope that people notice and reach out to me too. But but yeah, we have right now it's mostly theaters, towns, and we have that one religious institution, but it's sort of in the back of my mind. People have asked a lot about like, like is there a version for corporations? And like could this be applicable to K through 12 schools? Those things are are floating around my mind, but nothing confirmed yet.

Ann Price:

Oh, I would think yes and yes, which was kind of my next question, is our kind of related question is you know all right, what's when? What's next for you? Yeah, that's fabulous. I can see so many ways. You know, we're not taught to be empathetic. I don't think.

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, I think, yeah, even I, when, when thinking about kids, sometimes I sort of hesitate, like like, at what point do they actually need this? I mean, it sort of feels like when you're younger maybe you're more naturally empathetic, and then, as we get older, we start to see the differences more clearly and yeah, I'm not even sure. Like it's like, would this be helpful to second graders? I don't know.

Ann Price:

Well, I mean just observing my grandchildren, who are lovely. I want to go on record but. But sometimes they need help understanding. You know why when I say something mean to my hit you know sibling or I, you know jerk a toy away from them or I hit them or whatever that. That that's hurtful.

Catherine Cote:

Hmm, so I don't know. Yeah, that's, yeah, I.

Ann Price:

Don't know. It'll be really awesome to watch it grow. Catherine, is there anything else that you want to chat about, anything else on your mind when you think about this project or Whatever? What else is going on?

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, I one thing that I just wanted to share, which is, you know, I understand that not everyone listening is going to be like, yes, I have the time to direct or be in this. So I guess, sort of like a little nugget that I would like to leave people with, is that it actually sort of sprung from that empathy exercise we talked about about the morning routine. One thing I sort of recommend now is I call it the toothpaste trick. So if you're you know you're clashing with somebody, you find yourself realizing like I Cannot see this person's point of view. I, you know, I strongly disagree with them. This person is a monster like.

Catherine Cote:

If you feel yourself getting to that point where you're escalating, just asking yourself I wonder what brand of toothpaste this person uses. It's such like a Trivial detail, but I feel like the fact that it's it's so mundane and silly kind of just brings you right back to this is a human being and this thing that we're talking about is one slice of their life. And they brush their teeth this morning. I wonder what brand of toothpaste they buy. Like really brings you back down to. We're just two people. So just just a little something to keep in your back pocket.

Ann Price:

I'm gonna remember that we all have those people right. There are always those people who we don't or can't or won't understand.

Catherine Cote:

Yeah, oh, I definitely. I use it all the time.

Ann Price:

Yeah, yeah, even in your everyday life it could be somebody you work with. Yeah, all right, what brand of toothpaste? Yeah, I remember I I was doing a presentation, I think I was in, was saying graduate school. Then I think I was in graduate school and I had to present to a professor that I was particularly terrified of and my thesis chair just said, oh, just picture him in his underwear. Did that work? Yeah, it kind of did. It kind of made me kind of chuckle in my head as I was doing the presentation. Yeah, very funny, we're all. We're just human, right? Yeah, so so, catherine, I am super curious about how you answer this question. When you look to the future, what community possibilities Do you see?

Catherine Cote:

I, See the possibility where we don't let our opinions Divide us, which I know is a really big claim. I think, again, if I've learned anything from doing this for the past six years, it's that when people are given the chance to get to know people who are different from them, they show up, and I think I mean product empathy is really just one Opportunity for people to do that. I would obviously really like to see this specific opportunity in tons of different communities, but as a bigger, bigger picture issue, as long as we can keep making the time in the space to say my goal is to understand you, your goal is to understand me, I think that the possibilities of working together and solving, you know, other issues are just enormous mm-hmm, I Know I'm supposed to be wrapping this up, but I got a squeeze in one more question, yeah is there ever?

Ann Price:

has there ever been a time when the pairs couldn't understand each other?

Catherine Cote:

There has never been a time when they didn't get there, so they've always got there by the end. But there are.

Ann Price:

It's not, it's not easy.

Catherine Cote:

It's not always easy. No, in fact, I would say it's never easy, because you're being vulnerable with someone you don't know. But yeah, in fact, I think I would even just use the, the Black Lives Matter activist, and the police chief as an example. They they they actually have their own podcast which is called The Conversations we Should be Having, and their first episode they talk about when they first met at that first product empathy rehearsal, and how they both thought, like this person's not gonna be able to understand me, like I'm just here as sort of like a favor to the director, like I don't think this is gonna work, and Basically, they, throughout the process, they just they just kept going because they were like well, this is what we've committed to. I do want to see if they can empathize with me. Like, of course, I can empathize with them.

Catherine Cote:

Like it was, it was not a like fast friendship, but throughout the course of the project they did both realize that their stories both had these these similarities of needing to remain strong in the face of really difficult times.

Catherine Cote:

The police chief history was about having to respond to a Really difficult call and the Black Lives Matter activists was really just about growing up as a black woman and having to sort of like unlearn, hiding her identity.

Catherine Cote:

And you would not expect there to be similarities between their, their stories, but there were, and Actually this is sort of tying back into your outcomes question. They, they've since kept up a friendship. In addition to making this podcast, they meet and they talk about policy because they live in the same community and and They've said like, yeah, I mean, now that we, now that we have this connection, I can call on him to say like, hey, like we should really look at this policy where he could call on her and say, hey, like is this helping the community in the way that we Wanted to be? So, you know, not, like I said, not every pair is as like flashy as the BLM and the police chief, but it's the same sort of thing where even they could do this. So, yeah, like, whoever you are in your community, those connections can, can be formed.

Ann Price:

I'm so glad I circled back and asked that question and I'll definitely put a link to that podcast and I'm gonna go listen to it. That sounds really fabulous.

Catherine Cote:

They are.

Ann Price:

I want to thank you so much for joining me today. I've been wanting you to come on the podcast for a while now, so I'm so glad we finally made it happen. Thank you, thank you, thank you. So just lastly, before I let you go, how can people get in touch with you? Learn more about project empathy?

Catherine Cote:

Thank you, they can well, if they can email me at official project, empathy dot at gmailcom, or they can find us at official product empathy calm, and we're also on social media at project empathy on Instagram and check talk, and then we're also on Facebook and LinkedIn.

Ann Price:

Awesome. Well, thank you so much, catherine Coatee, for joining me today. Good luck with project empathy. I can't wait to see what happens. Thank you, thanks so much for having me.

Ann Price:

Hi everybody. Thank you so much for joining me on today's episode of community possibilities. Before I let you go, I want to point you in the direction of some resources that might help you out. We have designed them just for nonprofits and community-based organizations like coalitions. So if you go to the website community evaluation solutions comm slash resources, you're going to find a brand new logic model template, theory of change template, a coalition assessment and a mini course Designed to help you share your data, to tell your story. So there's lots more there.

Ann Price:

I hope you check it out. I hope it's helpful. One thing you could do to help me out, if you would be so kind, is to leave a review and Maybe share an episode. Those likes, those shares, those written reviews really help us get in more ears. And oh my gosh, I totally forgot to remind you that my book with Susan Wolf is out. It's called a guidebook to community consulting, a Collaborative approach. So lots of resources, lots of things going on here at community evaluation solutions. Hope you have a good week, everybody. We'll see you next time. You.